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Impulzni motor
Mazda forum Slovenija > Mazda > Splošna debata
M-Fan
Ja, tkole sm pršu do teme. S prijatlam sma danes razglabljala o impulznih motorjih. Pa sm brsku po internetu pa sm vidu da jih uporabljajo celo pri avtomobilih. confused0059.gif Zdej mam pa en problem..... Ne vem če sva midva iste motorje mela v mislih kot je tale na prvi sliki; (midva sva se pogovarjala o impulznih motorjih ki se uporabljajo pri letalih-tudi pri tistih na daljinsko vodenje).

Motor deluje takole(posplošeno)

Ima polnilno komoro kjer se inducira plin(ne vem kter plin)potem pa ima dva izpuha; enega manjšega in drugega, ki je večji. v polnilni komori je uplinjač(deva iskro po domače)........ Potem pa ne vem več točno. vem samo da so dve eksploziji in da so moči abnormalne. tongue.gif

Če kdo kaj več ve, ima kak znanstveni članek oz. kej podobnega bi ga lepo prosu če lahk prpopa!

Hvala

P.S.

Sm mislu u slikarji narisat pribljižno sliko pa ne morm pripet. Jebat ga! happy0005.gif
wiperboy
zanimiva tema bom malo pobrskal po netu pa te obvestim
dravni
Ta raketa V-1 je imela tak motor, nisem pa siguren čigava je to pogruntavščina
komar
Mislim, da nemcev.... whatever.gif
Marko_mx-3
a ni to en nemec pogruntal in potem ušel v ZDA, kjer je pomagal pri programu Apolo. Kako mu je ime pa sem pozabil.

Pa če kdo gleda na Discovery-ju ko na odpadu delajo razna vozila in pripomočke, tam so imeli ta motor ki so ga morali sestavit iz odpadkov na odpadu in potem so tekmovali z njim.
dravni
QUOTE(komar @ 28 Mar 2006, 21:07) *

Mislim, da nemcev.... whatever.gif

Ja rakete jasno, ni pa nujno, da tudi motorja party0012.gif
Symon
QUOTE(komar @ 28 Mar 2006, 21:07) *

Mislim, da nemcev.... whatever.gif

Saj Wankel e bil tudi švab. tongue.gif Pa ga poglejte zdaj. party0024.gif
poky
QUOTE(Symon @ 28 Mar 2006, 21:14) *

Saj Wankel e bil tudi švab. tongue.gif Pa ga poglejte zdaj. party0024.gif

happy0195.gif happy0195.gif happy0158.gif
Sishi
QUOTE(Symon @ 28 Mar 2006, 21:14) *

Saj Wankel e bil tudi švab. tongue.gif Pa ga poglejte zdaj. party0024.gif


KVA TO POMEN ?!?! blink.gif
Boss
QUOTE(Marko_mx-3 @ 28 Mar 2006, 21:13) *

a ni to en nemec pogruntal in potem ušel v ZDA, kjer je pomagal pri programu Apolo. Kako mu je ime pa sem pozabil.


a ni bil to en von, mislim, da se je pisal Braun - Werner von Braun al neki tazga z0tdntknw.gif
Symon
QUOTE(323F @ 29 Mar 2006, 08:16) *

KVA TO POMEN ?!?! blink.gif

Nič slabega? tongue.gif
Marko_mx-3
Da je bil nemec zdaj pa ga delajo japonci ker nemci nimajo posluha zanj
M-Fan
Ker ta motor dela neposredno (brez vsakršnih prenosov), me prou zanima kako ma pol avto to spelan - če ma to pod "haubo" pol ma 2m roru spelanih čez celo podvozje? huh.gif Mal čudno se mi zdi. A kdo ve?

Pri telem že zastopm, kaj pa pri običnih avtomobilih?!!!

Symon
QUOTE(Marko_mx-3 @ 29 Mar 2006, 13:58) *

Da je bil nemec zdaj pa ga delajo japonci ker nemci nimajo posluha zanj

love0030.gif Sam ne bi znal bolje napisati.
Nemci imajo posluh predvsem za dizle. tongue.gif
Marko_mx-3
QUOTE(M-Fan @ 29 Mar 2006, 15:55) *

Ker ta motor dela neposredno (brez vsakršnih prenosov), me prou zanima kako ma pol avto to spelan - če ma to pod "haubo" pol ma 2m roru spelanih čez celo podvozje? huh.gif Mal čudno se mi zdi. A kdo ve?

Pri telem že zastopm, kaj pa pri običnih avtomobilih?!!!



Pomoje imajo speljano preko turbine, da plini poganjajo lopatice ti pa potem avto
Sirius
Pojasnila v zvezi z impulsnim (novim) sistemom za otto motorje so zašle v napačno smer. Tu ne gre za turbinske motorje, ampak za nov način polnjenja motorjev s toplejšim zrakom in hlajenjem motorjev z nižjo delovno temperaturo hladilne tekočine. Gre na nek način za obraten sistem od konvencionalnega pri katerem se polnjenje cilindrov izvaja s hladnim zrakom, hlajenje motorja pa s toplejšo vodo. Nov sistem naj bi v kombinaciji s povečanjem moči iskre za vžig zagotavljal več navora in več moči.

Hot Air Induction and Cold Water

NEW induction and cooling system uses hot air and cold water

Hot air induction is used to increase the speed and pressure of combustion and when used in conjunction with cold water it maintains the optimum combustion temperature needed to maximise power with the larger volume of hot air forced into the engine by the Negative Supercharging process.
Hot air induction with cold water produces more power
If hot air induction is used with hot water, the combustion temperature becomes too hot which reduces the speed and pressure of combustion which reduces power. For this reason a cold water temperature between 45-50°C (113-122°F) must be used to keep the combustion temperature at the optimum level with the larger volume of hot air forced into the engine by the Negative Supercharging process. This allows hot air induction to increase the speed and pressure of combustion to produce more torque and horsepower. However, the much faster burn produced by hot air induction requires using the Negative Supercharging ignition timing which uses a unique advance curve with less total advance to prevent pre-ignition (pinging).

For example,

If the air induction temperature

* FALLS below 40°C (104°F), Negative Supercharging will produce less power the colder the air, even if the water temperature is increased to above 82°C (180°F)
* INCREASES from 40°C to 121°C (104°F to 250°F), Negative Supercharging will produce more power the hotter the air, but the water temperature must NOT exceed 50°C (122°F) to maintain the optimum combustion speed and temperature with hot air induction

If the water temperature

* EXCEEDS 50°C (122°F) with hot air induction, Negative Supercharging will produce less power the hotter the water
* FALLS below 40°C (104°F) with hot air induction, Negative Supercharging will produce less power the colder the water

Hot gas explodes with much greater force than cold gas
Hot gas explodes more violently, produces more combustion pressure and reaches its maximum pressure much faster than cold gas.

For example,

2 equal size gas cylinders filled with the same volume of gas are placed in an open field. The temperature of one gas cylinder is chilled to a cold 10°C (50°F) while the other gas cylinder is heated to a hot 121°C (250°F) or to just before it explodes. A spark is used to ignite the hot and cold gas cylinders and both explode with a tremendous force but the hot gas cylinder leaves a larger crater. The reason for this is, the less dense hot gas reaches its maximum pressure much faster than the more dense cold gas which causes the hot gas to explode with a much greater force.

Therefore, the engine is able to produce more power with hot air induction because the increase in power produced by the higher combustion pressure and faster burn of hot gas is much greater than the loss produced by less dense hot air.


Cold air induction with hot water is less efficient

During cold weather, cold air induction and hot water produce the optimum combustion temperature and maximise power. However, as the air induction temperature increases during hot weather so does the combustion temperature. This causes combustion to exceed its optimum temperature with hot water which reduces the speed and pressure of combustion which reduces power. Also, the slow burn produced by cold air induction transfers more heat into an already very hot cooling system which allows the engine to easily overheat during hot weather and produce pre-ignition (pinging).

Therefore, combining the fast burn of hot air induction with cold water and special ignition timing, the engine produces more power, runs cooler and during hot weather it eliminates the overheating problems caused by cold air induction and hot water.

M-Fan
QUOTE(Sirius @ 30 Mar 2006, 15:36) *

Pojasnila v zvezi z impulsnim (novim) sistemom za otto motorje so zašle v napačno smer. Tu ne gre za turbinske motorje, ampak za nov način polnjenja motorjev s toplejšim zrakom in hlajenjem motorjev z nižjo delovno temperaturo hladilne tekočine. Gre na nek način za obraten sistem od konvencionalnega pri katerem se polnjenje cilindrov izvaja s hladnim zrakom, hlajenje motorja pa s toplejšo vodo. Nov sistem naj bi v kombinaciji s povečanjem moči iskre za vžig zagotavljal več navora in več moči.

Hot Air Induction and Cold Water

NEW induction and cooling system uses hot air and cold water

Hot air induction is used to increase the speed and pressure of combustion and when used in conjunction with cold water it maintains the optimum combustion temperature needed to maximise power with the larger volume of hot air forced into the engine by the Negative Supercharging process.
Hot air induction with cold water produces more power
If hot air induction is used with hot water, the combustion temperature becomes too hot which reduces the speed and pressure of combustion which reduces power. For this reason a cold water temperature between 45-50°C (113-122°F) must be used to keep the combustion temperature at the optimum level with the larger volume of hot air forced into the engine by the Negative Supercharging process. This allows hot air induction to increase the speed and pressure of combustion to produce more torque and horsepower. However, the much faster burn produced by hot air induction requires using the Negative Supercharging ignition timing which uses a unique advance curve with less total advance to prevent pre-ignition (pinging).

For example,

If the air induction temperature

* FALLS below 40°C (104°F), Negative Supercharging will produce less power the colder the air, even if the water temperature is increased to above 82°C (180°F)
* INCREASES from 40°C to 121°C (104°F to 250°F), Negative Supercharging will produce more power the hotter the air, but the water temperature must NOT exceed 50°C (122°F) to maintain the optimum combustion speed and temperature with hot air induction

If the water temperature

* EXCEEDS 50°C (122°F) with hot air induction, Negative Supercharging will produce less power the hotter the water
* FALLS below 40°C (104°F) with hot air induction, Negative Supercharging will produce less power the colder the water

Hot gas explodes with much greater force than cold gas
Hot gas explodes more violently, produces more combustion pressure and reaches its maximum pressure much faster than cold gas.

For example,

2 equal size gas cylinders filled with the same volume of gas are placed in an open field. The temperature of one gas cylinder is chilled to a cold 10°C (50°F) while the other gas cylinder is heated to a hot 121°C (250°F) or to just before it explodes. A spark is used to ignite the hot and cold gas cylinders and both explode with a tremendous force but the hot gas cylinder leaves a larger crater. The reason for this is, the less dense hot gas reaches its maximum pressure much faster than the more dense cold gas which causes the hot gas to explode with a much greater force.

Therefore, the engine is able to produce more power with hot air induction because the increase in power produced by the higher combustion pressure and faster burn of hot gas is much greater than the loss produced by less dense hot air.


Cold air induction with hot water is less efficient

During cold weather, cold air induction and hot water produce the optimum combustion temperature and maximise power. However, as the air induction temperature increases during hot weather so does the combustion temperature. This causes combustion to exceed its optimum temperature with hot water which reduces the speed and pressure of combustion which reduces power. Also, the slow burn produced by cold air induction transfers more heat into an already very hot cooling system which allows the engine to easily overheat during hot weather and produce pre-ignition (pinging).

Therefore, combining the fast burn of hot air induction with cold water and special ignition timing, the engine produces more power, runs cooler and during hot weather it eliminates the overheating problems caused by cold air induction and hot water.



Hvala lepa!!! yahoo.gif
Sirius
Do zmešnjave pri dveh vrstah tehnologij so privedli avstralski izumitelji sistema, ki sem ga opisal, s poimenovanjem impulsni sistem, ki (naj) izboljšuje delovanje Otto motorjev na način, kot je zgoraj opisan.

Impulsni motor pa je dejansko najbolj enostaven reaktivni (jet) motor, ki je bil uporabljen pri prvi krilati bombi V-1. Deluje pa tako, da se zaradi hitrosti, ki jo je potrebno doseči s pomočjo drugega nosilca, skozi sesalni kanal nabija zrak v izgorevalno komoro, kamor se nato vbrizga gorivo in zmes z zrakom vžge. V komori se tako pojavi velik pritisk, ki zapre ventil za dovod zraka na dovodni cevi za zrak. Edina pot izgorele zmesi je skozi izpušno cev. Zaradi velikega pritiska se plini z veliko hitrostjo usmerijo skozi izpušno cev, pri tem pa se ustvari precejšnja reaktivna sila. V komori se zaradi inercije plinov ustvari pod pritisk, v sled katerega se ventil ponovno odpre in zrak ponovno polni izgorevalno komoro in postopek se ponavlja. Motor deluje približno tako kot se gibljejo morski glavonožci (lignji, sipe...)le, da pri veliko višjih hitrostih. V-1 je imela v kratkem času po lansiranju hitrost skoraj 700km/h.
Kako deluje tisti dvocevni pulsirajoči motor na zemeljskih vozilih, ne vem, vendar si tega sistema ne morem predstavljati brez komprimiranega zraka (jeklenke). Dve cevi pa so verjetno za to, da delujeta izmenično in tako zmanjšata interval med posameznimi impulsi. Taki motorji nimajo praktične uporabnosti, razen za kake dirke naravnost.
Je pa uporaben drugi turbinski motor, omenjen v debati. Ta ima rotirajoča kompresor in turbino, s katerih osi se preko reduktorja moč prenaša na mehanski pogon. Motorji, v primerjavi z velikostjo, dajejo veliko moč, vendar pa so za avtomobilsko uporabo neprimerni, zaradi velike porabe goriva.
Boss
QUOTE(Sirius @ 4 Apr 2006, 08:38) *

Do zmešnjave pri dveh vrstah tehnologij so privedli avstralski izumitelji sistema, ki sem ga opisal, s poimenovanjem impulsni sistem, ki (naj) izboljšuje delovanje Otto motorjev na način, kot je zgoraj opisan.

Impulsni motor pa je dejansko najbolj enostaven reaktivni (jet) motor, ki je bil uporabljen pri prvi krilati bombi V-1. Deluje pa tako, da se zaradi hitrosti, ki jo je potrebno doseči s pomočjo drugega nosilca, skozi sesalni kanal nabija zrak v izgorevalno komoro, kamor se nato vbrizga gorivo in zmes z zrakom vžge. V komori se tako pojavi velik pritisk, ki zapre ventil za dovod zraka na dovodni cevi za zrak. Edina pot izgorele zmesi je skozi izpušno cev. Zaradi velikega pritiska se plini z veliko hitrostjo usmerijo skozi izpušno cev, pri tem pa se ustvari precejšnja reaktivna sila. V komori se zaradi inercije plinov ustvari pod pritisk, v sled katerega se ventil ponovno odpre in zrak ponovno polni izgorevalno komoro in postopek se ponavlja. Motor deluje približno tako kot se gibljejo morski glavonožci (lignji, sipe...)le, da pri veliko višjih hitrostih. V-1 je imela v kratkem času po lansiranju hitrost skoraj 700km/h.


enostavno in učinkovito - zaradi konstantnih pokov je ta raketa oddajala značilen zvok (kot kak zelo počasi se vrteč diesel biggrin.gif ) od katerega je Londončanom ledenilo kri v žilah...
Sirius
Še kako izgleda samogradnja turboshaft motorja (turbina s prenosom moči na gred). Lahko se kak entuziast preizkusi v izdelavi lastnega motorja.

http://www.rcdon.com/html/gr-5_turboshaft_engine_video.html
http://www.rcdon.com/html/gr-5_turboshaft_...e_project1.html
confused0059.gif confused0059.gif blink.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
M-Fan
Hvala lepa za tako izčrpno poročilo!!! love0030.gif smile.gif
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